Wednesday, August 18, 2010

A view of our Palestinian Israeli guest- By Ilan Solomons

It’s not often that an event hosted by the South African Union of Jewish Students (SAUJS) makes it onto websites like Al-Jazeera.net Arabic, Electronic Intifada and Maan News to name just a few. Well our recent event made headlines on these sites. SAUJS is an organization which seeks to constructively engage on a range of issues whether they are relating to Jewish identity, South African and African Affairs, or even the Arab-Israeli conflict. This is because SAUJS is founded on 3 core values Jewish Identity, South Africa and Zionism. The last principle is something which makes our connection to this conflict that exists thousands of miles away from South Africa such an important part of daily SAUJS activities.

SAUJS is defined as broadly as an apolitical organization but this does not by any means make us politically naïve or unconscious. We send tours to Israel every year, we have our leadership training there, our highest values are to make Aliya and become a part of Israeli society. We have a close relationship with the Israeli Embassy in South Africa and all of the above is generally regarded as common knowledge. What is not such common knowledge are our relationships with the Palestinian people and their diplomatic missions.

Before I go into this topic let me just also state that SAUJS also has relationships with Israeli human rights organizations which are generally very critical of policies and practices of the State of Israel. The most famous one being Benjamin Pogrund who is the former editor of the Rand Daily Mail and who moved to Israel and founded the Yakar Centre for Social Concern in Jerusalem. He is a veteran of the Zionist-Left and is very much critical of the Israeli Occupation of the Palestinian territories and the human rights abuses that occur in the Territories, and other policies which infringe upon the rights of Arab-Israeli’s, which is why he has been so involved in Israeli-Palestinian and Jordanian dialogue through the Yakar Centre. He is devote Zionist but just as devoutly anti-Occupation


Now back to the issue of our relationship with the Palestinians. SAUJS has been engaged in meeting with Palestinian peace activists in the territories, SAUJS has hosted Bassim Eid and Benjamin Pogrund on a previous occasion. We have unfortunately only very recently begun engaging directly with the local Palestinian Diplomatic Mission in South Africa. Although this is viewed as contraversial move by some to meet the PLO/PA SAUJS realized that we had found someone in Palestinian Ambassador who shared our view of creating meaningful dialogue between the Jewish community and the Palestinian people.

That we have major differences it goes without saying that the Ambassador is not in favour of Zionism or the concept of a Jewish State – as apposed to the existence of State called Israel where Jews, Muslims, Christians and others live together as equals – this goes without saying, I just am stating this because many of the internet sites have labelled him a ‘Zionist collaborator’ and ‘an agent of Zionism and of the Zionist entity AKA Israel’, this is incredibly insulting to any Palestinian no-less to a Palestinian diplomat, who views Zionism as the reason for them being without a state and many still languishing in refugee camps throughout the middle-east. What we do agree on is the need for dialogue and as the Ambassador has said many times he would rather us to shout at one another than shoot at one other.
I have personally arranged for the Ambassador to speak to Jewish Youth groupings, and have helped facilitate a special relationship between our movement and parts of the Jewish community. I truly hope this will help bring balanced view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from an official Palestinian view point – that is opposed to the radical views espoused by groups like the PSC, Afro-Middle Centre(AMEC) and the like!

The actual discussion between the Ambassador and Pogrund which was held in the Dorothy Susskind Hall in John Moffat building on Wits Campus was entitled “ Assessing Current Diplomacy towards building Peace in the Middle East”. It was moderated by Professor Larry Benjamin from the School of International Relations. What both participants agreed on was that the growth illegal settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories were destoying efforts to establish a viable independent Palestinian State along side the State of Israel. They also agreed that America was not doing enough to bring a peace settlement and that it was important for both the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli government, to take bold and courageous steps to bring about a just and equitable solution!

I believe that as a movement we should be committed to seeking a fair and broad understanding of the tragedy that has befallen the people of Palestine and Israel. I think that we have too often been guilty of responding to groups like the Palestinian Solidarity Committee (PSC), by countering their propaganda with our own form of Hasbara. I believe that we should be committed to defending Israel from unfair criticism and liable, but I also believe that through initiatives like the discussion between an imminent Israeli human rights activist and a representative of the Palestinian Authority we are assisting in highlighting the plight of the Palestinian people and the hurdles that need to be overcome in-order to ensure that peace is achieved.

In conclusion I just would like to state that the PSC was approached to co-host this event but they refused to do so. SAUJS however will continue to engage them in the hopes that we can work together to show a fuller picture of situation and co-operate in the interests of peace between the State of Israel and the Future State of Palestine. We welcome partnerships with various groups and organizations and look forward to expanding dialogue with all campus groupings, civil society and other institutions!

If you would like to know more about the event or SAUJS or anything that was mentioned in this article please feel free to contact me at liaison@saujs.co.za.

Ilan Solomons writes this blog in his personal capacity and does not represent the views of the organisation.

Chutzpahonline is a forum for debate of individual SAUJS members. Please see our terms of use for more information. If you would like to contribute on this or any other topic please email media@saujs.co.za

25 comments:

  1. i think that you are a wise scholar and a gentleman.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Dear Ilan,

    Far be it from me to question the judgment of SAUJS on hosting such a session, especially from a distance here in Jerusalem. However, I do think it legitimate to offer some friendly criticism of the reportage in this blog entry.

    You write of Benjamin Pogrund that, "He is a veteran of the Zionist-Left and is very much critical of the Israeli Occupation of the Palestinian territories and the human rights abuses that occur in the Territories, and other policies which infringe upon the rights of Arab-Israeli’s".

    You do not attribute these formulations to Pogrund or even use the time honored journalistic fudge of "scare quotes". Without an attribution and labeling as an allegation you have endorsed phrases such as "Israeli Occupation", "Palestinian territories", "[Israeli] human rights abuses" as fact.

    Similarly, in the case of the (strangely unnamed) PA ambassador's discussion with Pogrund, you seemingly endorse their agreement that "that the growth [of] illegal settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories" was problematic.

    Are we to assume that it is the position of SAUJS that the growth of Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria are illegal? Are we to conclude that it is your view? Or are we to conclude that you slipped up on good journalistic practice?

    I'm not just being pedantic here. There is every chance that the blog entry will be picked up and quoted. I'm not sure if you want to be labeled as someone who accepts that Israel abuses the human rights of Palestinian Arabs while building illegal settlement. I'm not sure if you would like the views of Benjamin Pogrund and the PA ambasoder being thought of as your own.

    ReplyDelete
  3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hi

    Just to point out that Ilan speaks on this blog in his personal capacity. A numnber of things whihch he claims are SAUJS policy are only that in his opinion and no one elses. SAUJS has hosted a number of speakers in the past even anti-Zionists and we do not agree with them. The point is to educate about the conflict that is all. We hold a variety of opinions in our organisation that are broadly Zionist including greater Israel and "both sides of the Jordan narrative" as well as two state solutionists. There is certainly no policy on settlements and Jerusalem.

    If the participants to this disscussion keep claiming certain things as SAUJS policy their posts will be deleted.

    If anyone would like to write a counter blog they are welcome to send it for consideration to media@saujs.co.za.

    The Blogmaster

    ReplyDelete
  6. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Dear Ilan,

    First an apology for the lack of a "Dear Ilan" on my previous post. I was right up at the limit of permitted characters, and something had to go.

    I hate to be so pushy on this, but you haven't responded to the points that I made about language (other than supplying additional examples of what I was questioning).

    What do you mean by "Occupation of Palestine"? Are you talking about the applicability of the Laws of Belligerent Occupation to the disputed territories? What geographic area do you have in mind when you use the term "Palestine"? What's the relationship between between the "Occupation of Palestine" and the "Occupied Palestinian territorries"?

    In what sense are you suggesting that settlement activity is "illegal"? Under Israeli law, International law? Something else?

    Is Hamas ruled Gaza under a morally reprehensible "siege", or subject to a sanctions campaign of the kind that was applied to apartheid regime in South Africa?

    ReplyDelete
  8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I regard the Occupied Palestinian territories as the ones that Israeli human rights organizations like Btselem and Gush Shalom, regard as Occupied - I encourage you to visit their sites for exact details. When I refer to Palestine I mean not Mandate Palestine which would include Israel and Jordan, but rather Gaza, the West Bank and most of Arab East Jerusalem excluding the Western Wall and the Jewish Quarter.

    I view the settlements as morally illegal if you were. We already know that from Oslo and the Camp David accords Israel will retain certain settelments like the Gush region for example but every new settelement house built I believe creates new realities on the ground and causes more Palestinian land to be Occupied as Uri Avnery - the great Israeli human rights activist - would say " by those vicious and greedy fundementalist settlers". Every new settlement or expansion of an existing Israeli settlement only undermines the prospects for a just and fair settlement to the conflict - Ibelieve at least!

    That original siege was heinous I believe they did not even allow in chocolates or toys! Its improved alot, through major internal external and internal pressure which is good! Obviously I do not want those Islamo-fascist Hamasniks to get weapons or rockets to fre into Israel but this has to be done cleverly and without creating the perception that the Jewish State is collectively punishing the entire population of Gaza.

    The Siege includes the lack of ability for the individuals to travel to or from Gaza, especially for business and academic reasons. These are totally unaccepatble in my mind and only serve to radicalize the population of Gaza further! Which I am sure you would agree is not the intend outcome of the siege or blockade of Gaza.

    ReplyDelete
  10. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Dear Ilan,

    I asked, “In what sense are you suggesting that settlement activity is "illegal"? Under Israeli law, International law? Something else?”. Your response was that they were “morally illegal”! Something is illegal if it flaunts some system of law. You are admitting that you do not feel that Israeli settlement activity is illegal, but you would like to go on using the term anyway!

    I asked, “What do you mean by "Occupation of Palestine"? Are you talking about the applicability of the Laws of Belligerent Occupation to the disputed territories? What geographic area do you have in mind when you use the term "Palestine"? What's the relationship between the "Occupation of Palestine" and the "Occupied Palestinian territorries"? You relied that, “When I refer to Palestine I mean not Mandate Palestine which would include Israel and Jordan, but rather Gaza, the West Bank and most of Arab East Jerusalem excluding the Western Wall and the Jewish Quarter.” Also, “I regard the Occupied Palestinian territories as the ones that Israeli human rights organizations like Btselem and Gush Shalom, regard as Occupied - I encourage you to visit their sites for exact details.”

    Well the B’etselem website regards all of formerly Jordanian occupied Jerusalem as “occupied territory”. Gush Shalom also fails to make the idiosyncratic distinction you make. The PLO and the Palestinian Authority both view Palestine as existing “from the River to the Sea”. The definitions you are using would seem to have no anchor in any legal theory. (Of course we have already established that “legal” doesn’t necessarily mean “legal” for you.)

    Your use of language puts me in mind of Lewis Carroll: “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”

    But it’s not just imprecision. To use a term like, “vicious and greedy fundementalist settlers” should be as beneath your dignity and that of a SAUJS forum as it would be to use a term like, “vapid and traitorous North Tel Aviv leftists”. It is an infantile piece of name calling that detracts from serious debate.

    So, once the invective is set aside we end up with a dispute over what are the reasonable limits of the sanctions regime against Hamas run Gaza. I think it would make for a more serious discussion if you could be both more rigorous and less insulting.

    ReplyDelete
  12. David I did not want to explicitly site international and Israeli Supreme Court law which explicitly states that Occupation and expansion of settlements is overtly illegal because I know that you are an internationally reknown Hasbara Advocate and you will spin it or down play it! Which is essentially how you make your living, so I decided to just phrase it as a moral issue which it undoubtedly is!

    As for the description of the settlers it is not my words, they are of the great man himself Uri Avnery - May have live to 120 - as a respected Israeli human rights activist and campaigner against the tragic Occupation and Siege of Palestine, and one of the earliest campaigners for the 2 States Solution and the ending of Occupation, I and many a cross Israel and the world value his thoughts greatly!

    The current situasion as it stands it bad for the the Jewish State and even worse for Zionism. I urge you to take a visit to the Occupied territories of Sheik Jarrah, Nablus, Qalqiliya, the Palestinian administered side of Hebron and so on to see the on going suffering of the people of Palestine. If thats not enough for you I urge you to see the suffering of the refugees of Palestine that have been languishing in refugee camps in the Occupied Territories, and the Arab countries.

    Gaza is difficult to enter but it has been described by the likes of Daved Cameron as a 'Concentration Camp', the UNWRA, Human Rights Watch, Btselem, Amnesty International and so on, have reported about the shocking state of Gaza as a result of the Siege and the mental and health crisis that is rapidily deteriorating in Gaza.

    As a Zionist and as a Jew I feel that like our fellow Jewish collegues in Europe and the US, we should make our members aware of these serious issues and make our constituents aware of the effects of certain Israeli policies which are the cause of major suffering for the people of Palestine and also undermine the chances of peace in the region!

    We can not afford to be seen as just another Hasbara unit, we will continue to lose Jews to anti-semitic/zionist organizations like the PSC and Open Shuhada Street which masquerade as human rights organziations. This is not good I am sure you will agree that the need for fairness and justice should be the cornerstone of any organization worth its salt.

    ReplyDelete
  13. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Cameron called it a prison camp, not a concentration camp ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  15. why was Ethans' post removed may I ask?

    ReplyDelete
  16. As was stated before all those making claims on SAUJS policy were removed. Everything else has been left. Feel free to express what you think SAUJS polciy should be, or any other matter on the blog. However claiming to be SAUJS is not accetable and is simply lying.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hasbarah is truth.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Hasbarah is truth. thats what the goal of hasbarah is. The world says that Israel is a serial human rights abuser. "radical hasbara agents" say this is rubbish. Speak to the idf soldiers who have been mutilated or killed in operations that we carried out on foot to minimize collateral damage and in the process have idf casualties. The usa or Brits blow up when the idf sends in foot soldiers. The idf spends millions of dollars ensuring that it keeps to the highest principles of Jus in bello.

    "occupation". Israel wants peace and has been willing to make the necessary steps for 62 years now. Israel has on many occasions tried to make a peace deal with the arabs. As we speak the israel government is waiting with Obama to start direct negations. Commonly the reply to this is 'settlements.' Israel has shown that it can remove settlers when necessary. Settles form a minority of Israel society. The gush block is not a settlement and nor is any part of Jerusalem. most importantly why do you believe that the new arab state should be judenrine(jew free). The checkpoints and other security measure are a direct result of the interfada and continued terrorism. The checkpoints and other security measures are directly related to terrorism and will be removed when security situations change. An example is the removal of the Gilo barrier.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Goodluck - your correct! Tks for pointing that one out!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Josh or let there be truth whatever,

    You raise some interesting points! Thank you
    ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  21. Top Secret
    To Mr Adi Yafeh, Political Secretary of the Prime Minister
    From: Legal Counsel of the Foreign Ministry
    Re: Settlement of the Administered Territories

    As per your requests...I hereby provide you a copy of my memorandum of September 14, 1967, which I presented to the Foreign Minister. My conclusion is that civillian settlement in the administered territories contravenes the explicit provision of the fourth Geneva convention.

    Sincerely,
    T. Meron.

    (Occupied Territories, Gershom Gorenberg)

    Meron was the Israeli govts authority on international law.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I dont know what account that above comment is linked to, but it is linked incorrectly. It was posted by Steve from It's Almost Supernatural.

    ReplyDelete